I used to say that I love breastfeeding because I’m lazy. Think about it… not having to get out of bed to prepare a bottle when your child wakes up hungry? Excellent. Running errands without packing milk or formula, because you have your breasts with you all the time? So convenient! Never washing bottles? Awesome.
Now I know better. I’m not lazy at all when it comes to feeding my babies.
Faced with difficulty, I’ve been working day and night to make sure my littlest still gets breast milk. I’ve basically become an exclusive pumper (EPer). Lots of people exclusively pump for their babies, for various reasons. It isn’t something that I personally would choose “on purpose”… given the choice between breastfeeding and pumping, my preference would clearly be breastfeeding. But when it’s a choice between pumping and formula? I’ll pump.
I’ll pump all day if I have to (and I have been). I’ll set alarms to wake up in the middle of the night and pump. I’ll give up my lazy morning snuggles if it means I’ll get 2.5 more ounces than if I stay in bed. I’m not lazy.
Not Just Small
A friend of mine, who is a nurse and mother of 5, sent me a text earlier in the week, encouraging me to make sure everything was going okay with Joseph. She said, “I don’t think he’s just small.”
I was small. I was tiny. For years. So his overall size hadn’t concerned me. Some people are just small.
He is happy. He laughs. He is learning… grabbing toys, rolling over, peeing and pooping. His fingernails grow at an alarming rate. He usually takes 2 fairly reliable naps a day, doesn’t over sleep, is alert and engaged when he’s awake.
Still, I value my friend’s thoughts, and her level of experience with these issues made me take her a bit more seriously than, say, if someone had stopped me in Target to say, “dude, your baby looks too small.” And honestly, I wasn’t sure HOW small Joey was. So I weighed him on our scale at home. (Mom+baby – Mom = baby) Several different times over 2 days, my scale said that he was 12 pounds. I did the math… his lowest point after birth was 6.5 pounds. He just turned 4 months old, so that’s a 5.5 pound gain… which is just under the low end of normal range of gain for a breastfed baby.
Except that he wasn’t 12 pounds. I took him in to get weighed by the nurse at our pediatrician’s office, and with his clothes and diaper on, he weighed only 10 pounds 15 ounces. Way too small. Off the chart small. (Yes, the WHO chart, not the AAP chart). I nursed him, and we weighed him again. Only 11 pounds. 1 ounce of milk transfer. Not enough. Not by a long shot.
I thought to myself that maybe he hadn’t nursed well at the hospital because I was sitting in an uncomfortable chair in an exam room, not able to fully relax. Anneliese was asking to go potty the whole time, so that was distracting for me and for Joseph. He kept looking around at the new room, and so forth.
So I planned to schedule a weigh-nurse-weigh session with an IBCLC at my house, for a home visit.
I also scheduled an appointment with the hospital lactation consultant to follow up in a week, and see how much weight I could help Joey gain in the meantime. She said that sounded great, and made sure I knew that if he didn’t gain well, his pediatrician would want to refer him out for a Failure To Thrive work-up, which would include blood work to rule out various metabolic issues, and maybe GI testing to make sure his “mechanics” were working properly.
My friend had told me that some babies don’t give any other sign of something being wrong… other than simply being too small. The term for this is, “Content to Starve.” Can you imagine? Being hungry all the time, but just not really caring because it’s all you know? I’m in tears thinking about my poor baby literally starving, but soldiering on with a smile every day. You’d think that if a baby wasn’t getting what they needed, they’d let you know. They would cry, wail, scream, until you got help for them. Either that, or they’d sleep all day long to conserve energy. But that isn’t always true.
A content to starve baby will eat just enough to not be hungry anymore, then stop. And that’s not enough.
Good Supply
I knew it wasn’t an issue of milk supply. I’ve felt since Joseph was born that my supply is better than ever. My let-down seems faster than it ever was when Anneliese was young, for the first time I could manually cause milk to squirt “on demand,” and often when tandem nursing, I would hear both baby and toddler gulping happy gulps…for a long time.
So what then?
Observation
I paid close attention to Joseph’s nursing for the next day. I guess when you have a toddler to chase too, you don’t necessarily give nursing your full attention. I noticed that he wasn’t swallowing as much as I had thought he was. But when I nursed him WITH Anneliese (when I was used to paying attention, because I wasn’t chasing Anneliese), he nursed much better. Swallowing more.
Another friend was visiting that day, and her presence made me that much more aware of just how much Joseph spits up. His copious amounts of spit-up was something I had brought up at several La Leche League meetings, and asked other moms about. The general consensus was that if it didn’t bother him, it wasn’t really an issue…beyond needing to have burp cloths everywhere.
But it’s an issue if the baby is spitting up nearly everything he’s taking in, even if he is giggling while doing it.
So I had two immediate goals:
- Get more milk into Joey.
- Get more milk to STAY in Joey.
Research
I can’t really recall the specific order of the things I was reading… because my research was near-frantic… googling causes of excessive spitting up, homeopathic remedies for spitting-up/reflux, reasons for poor milk transfer despite good supply, and thumbing through The Breastfeeding Mother’s Guide to Making More Milk for something I might have overlooked. All at the same time.
And I found it. Suddenly everything converged, and everything made sense. I felt so relieved, because it meant I could formulate a plan to help Joseph.
Posterior Tongue-Tie
Tongue-tie, or ankyloglossia, means that the tongue is anchored to the floor of the mouth by the lingual (tongue) frenulum (or frenum). This means its mobility is hindered, and the baby’s ability to lift the nipple, cup it to squeeze out milk, and create a vacuum at the back of the mouth to suck and swallow the milk is compromised.
Full tongue-tie or anterior tongue-tie is much more noticeable and easier to identify than posterior. But any kind of tie can cause huge problems. From Making More Milk:
p. 89 Any type of tight frenulum can lead to feeding fatigue, poor milk transfer, slow weight gain, and ultimately, low milk production if the baby cannot remove milk effectively from the breast.
p.90 Inadequate feedings are common as baby wears out from his efforts before his tummy is full, and tongue tremors may be visible as he tires. He may fall asleep quickly and awaken hungrily a little later, or feedings may feel more like marathons as he slowly keeps working to fill his belly.
I’ve seen the tongue tremors, but since they’re similar to the quick fluttery sucks at the beginning of nursing, I assumed he was working to get a second let-down when that happened. I didn’t know he was exhausted by nursing, and wearing himself out. His best naps often happened after tandem nursing with his sister, which makes so much sense (I’ll explain in a bit).
Another excerpt from Making More Milk helped me confirm the theory that would explain everything.
p.92 Dr. James Murphy suggests pushing your little finger to the base of the tongue on one side and sweeping it across to the other side to see what you can feel… When you can’t sweep your finger across without pulling it back to “jump over a fence” the frenulum is a fibrous band attached closer to the front of the tongue… “Tree trunk, “ “fence”,” and “piano wire” frenulums are red flags for significant tongue function impairment.
Crazy… I thought everyone’s tongue had a “fence” under it. Mine does. So I guess I also have posterior tongue tie. It never caused any issues for me – I was bottle-fed formula as a baby, and had no problems eating food or speaking later on. I asked my husband if I could feel under his tongue, and sure enough, he has a normal “fenceless” tongue. Totally smooth. I felt my own frenulum again, then Joey’s, then asked Anneliese if I could feel under her tongue. As much as I could feel before she bit me (ha!), hers felt more like my husband’s.
But apparently posterior tongue-tie is something that can run in families. Who knew?
Thankfully, a frenotomy is a simple procedure to divide the membrane in order to free the tongue. It is usually preformed without anesthesia as there are few nerve endings (or blood vessels) in the frenulum. It can either be cut with blunt-tipped scissors or a laser, and sometimes a bit of gauze is applied to absorb any spotting of blood, after which the baby is allowed to nurse. Mothers often notice a huge and immediate change in latch and nursing behaviors after the procedure is completed.
Unfortunately, in older babies, the incorrect nursing technique will have to be un-learned, and proper latch and sucking will need to be taught. Babies can figure it out through trial and error, but there are exercises you can do with your baby to help the process and strengthen the formerly-unused portions of the tongue.
The Cause of Reflux
With the knowledge that Joseph is tongue-tied, I concluded that his spitting up has most likely been caused by inefficient latch and sucking, and uncoordinated swallowing, which would lead him to swallow more air than he should as he nurses.
This has basically been confirmed over the last few days, as he barely spits up when being fed from a bottle. Except for when I accidentally gave him too much milk at once and over-filled his little tummy… LOTS of spit-up then. Today I’ve made a point of giving him smaller bottles more often, and he has only dribbled a little while playing on his tummy. Like a normal baby.
Tandem Nursing
Anneliese has been nursing throughout Joseph’s life, and now I realize she has probably done 2 major things for Joseph.
- Helped him to get more milk. When they nurse at the same time, Anneliese (the “professional”) is able to get both breasts to let-down, and Joseph has a much easier time of nursing because the milk is already flowing. He swallows more and sleeps better afterward.
- Protected my milk supply. Were it not for Anneliese nursing, I think I would have had a significant supply problem by now due to insufficient milk removal. The way I had been tandem nursing – nursing Joseph first, then letting Anneliese nurse on the side he just “finished” while he switched to the opposite side (where he had an easier time because Anneliese helped with let-down) – was probably the best case scenario for the situation. Other than, of course, earlier detection of the problem.
Don’t Look Back
So many things have been running through my mind these last days, this last week. Clues I should have noticed, questions about Anneliese’s size as a baby (though she wasn’t nearly as small as Joseph is), things I should have done or checked or asked about… but I can’t do that. It’s unproductive and unhelpful. And wracking myself with guilt won’t solve anything. It’s pointless.
So I’m moving forward. (And please don’t ask me about “clues” or “signs” or anything else… because I’m really moving forward. Feel free to ask me anything about the current situation.)
I’m doing everything I can to make things right for my tiny boy.
And I know everything is going to be okay.
“I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better.
- Maya Angelou
Becoming an EPer (Exclusive Pumper)
My first impulse was to pump and use an SNS (supplemental nursing system) which is a bottle that hangs around mother’s neck on a lanyard, with a tiny tube taped to the nipple, so that when baby latches onto the breast, he can suck mother’s milk “from the tap” and from the bottle simultaneously. This keeps the baby nursing and also stimulates the breasts to produce more milk.
After my first half-day of pumping, however, I gave up on that idea for the time being. I realized that my breasts were going to get PLENTY of stimulation, and that Joseph, without his frenulum divided, wouldn’t be able to latch properly anyway. It would probably be more frustration than necessary for all of us.
My days have gone something like this, since Saturday:
- Give Joey a bottle with a few ounces of breast milk in it.
- Change his diaper.
- Set up my pump and strap on my hands-free pumping bra.
- Pump for about 20 minutes. (occasionally I pump while I give him the bottle)
- Measure milk into a bottle, record, and put pump parts in the fridge.
- Nurse Joey and/or Anneliese.
- Do a couple of small things. (Help Anneliese potty, get something to eat/drink,
- Repeat about 10 times.
My breasts are BUSY. I don’t need to add an SNS into the mix right now, and like I said, it probably wouldn’t be the best for Joey right now either.
This is how much time I’ve been spending each day just to feed Joseph – nursing, pumping, and bottle-feeding. Less nursing lately because he has started to bite me (explained in a bit). This screenshot was obviously taken just after 4pm, but the evening will be full of the same. Longer pumping sessions are “power pumping” sessions designed to mimic cluster feeding and increase supply. I’m doing 20 minutes on, 10 minutes off, 10 minutes on, 10 minutes off, 10 minutes on, but there are lots of different versions of “power pumping.”
I’m also still nursing Anneliese a few times a day, usually after pumping if I can arrange it that way… and that is not recorded on this chart.
EPing is so different than pumping for work… someone who is pumping because they’re going to be away for several hours can “catch up” to their baby by pumping extra on weekends, or adding a morning session before leaving for work work, or reverse cycle, nursing more often when they’re home so their baby needs less while they’re away. When you’re pumping for 24/7, there’s no “extra” time.
Pumping is always going to be less efficient than nursing… well, unless your baby is tongue-tied or has another palate/facial/lip/tongue deformity that compromises his ability to nurse well. So I’m struggling to keep up right now.
I’m taking a lot of More Milk Plus throughout the day, and my pumping output has gone up a little bit already (it only came in the mail Monday, even though I ordered it with expedited shipping so it should have arrived on Friday, so I haven’t been taking it for long). Also, I smell like maple syrup.
And the same friend who encouraged me to investigate Joey’s small size is so generously pumping and sharing her milk with us. I have been keeping up with Joey pretty well throughout the morning, but in late afternoon, my supply dips (which is common, whether nursing or pumping), and I have to thaw some of hers. I’m so lucky to have such a great friend helping me to continue feeding Joseph human milk.
No Longer Content
I’m trying to keep Joey nursing as much as possible, so he doesn’t forget how… well, as much as he knows how.
But since he has been feasting for almost a week now, he is no longer “content to starve.” He gets impatient at the breast because there isn’t immediate flow (especially as I’m trying to nurse AFTER pumping), and he bites now. Biting or chomping/clenching down with the gums is a sign of tongue tie, because since the tongue can’t effectively compress the nipple, babies will try using their gums to squeeze milk out. “Content” babies don’t do this, so he never bit me before.
This is really, really hard for me. I’m in tears just writing about it. I love the soft sweet cuddles that breastfeeding brings, and I love the long nursing relationship I have with Anneliese. I want that with Joey. But right now, it’s on pause.
He nurses much better when he is very sleepy (and full), I guess because there’s nothing else he’d rather be doing. The world beyond Mama’s breasts is too exciting for him when he’s sleepy. Cuddles are good. So I’m cherishing those moments of good latch and snuggles.
As He Should Be
Apparently the guy I thought was so “chill” and “laid back” from birth is a bit more exuberant than I thought.
This is before… so focused and precise. I guess he was conserving energy and being “content,” not just being a serious kid. “Intense baby” is apparently one sign of tongue-tie. Here is my intense baby.
And I took this video today… MUCH more batting and playing happening. (Also, breast pump sound in the background. Of course.)
I had to put him in the boppy to play because he was rolling over so much too. He was rolling before, but like once… now he’s rolling and flipping and doing 360 degree turns pivoting around on the floor. This is the way he’s supposed to be. My chilled-out “intense baby” is becoming more playful and active. As he should be.
Frenotomy and Back to Breast
After a weekend of pumping and bottle feeding, and the absence of much spit-up, I took Joseph back to the hospital IBCLC to be weighed and to give her an update.
Since we had weighed him with clothes on before, we weighed him with his clothes on again to get a good comparison. The results were astounding. He had gained somewhere around 9 ounces in just under 3 days of this new protocol. (Then we weighed him naked, to get a good baseline for future weigh-ins.)
I told her about my tongue-tie discovery, and she checked his tongue and confirmed his tie, then told me I was right that it could explain everything. She called Joseph’s pediatrician in to share the good news of his weight gain.
He told me that his significant gain probably ruled out any metabolic cause for his “failure to thrive” (I hate that term… how about “slow gaining”?) which would save him a lot of poking and prodding. Then he told me he could put in a referral to another doctor to have his frenulum clipped. He named a few doctors, and I asked for a referral to one my IBCLC/doula had mentioned before as being a good one.
Now we wait… the referral has to be approved and processed by our insurance company, which can take about a week. After that, we have to see where we can fit into the doctor’s schedule. I’m hoping it’s soon, something he can “squeeze in” since it’s such a quick procedure.
Once his frenulum is separated, I’m hoping I can get him back to breast 100%… I might have to use an SNS at first, since he’ll be used to “easy milk” from bottles and might not have patience to wait for a let down. The SNS will reward him for sucking properly, with milk right away, and its slow flow will make sure that he will continue to work for the milk if he is hungry.
This is just the beginning, but I wanted to put everything “out there” so you all know what is going on with us right now. If I don’t answer the phone when you call, it might be because I’m pumping and don’t want to have to talk over the whee-whoo, whee-whoo, whee-whoo. If I forget your birthday or don’t respond to an email right away, please know my mind is more than a bit occupied right now.
Everything’s going to be okay. But in the meantime, we are working very hard.
And laziness certainly is NOT the reason I breastfeed.
Hi! I'm Emily. I'm a Navy wife and stay at home mom of two beautiful children. I cook simple, delicious, grain-free recipes, do crafts, decorate my home on a budget, and keep a happy household. I tandem breastfeed, babywear, cloth diaper, practice elimination communication, homebirth, and co-sleep, but I'm not a hippie.
OH.MY. GOSH!!! Less than a week ago my sweet Tatum was discharged from Children’s Hospital of Wisconsin for FTT… Reading this story is like seeing hers in print! She lost almost 2 pounds in less than 6 weeks (just after her 6 month growth spurt). She had a lip tie and tongue tie clipped the day before Halloween, but by then it was too late. She was already “content to starve” and was too weak to transfer the milk. She refuses the bottle, so for now she has an NG tube. We are working HARD to bring my milk back in as strong as it was just a couple months ago and my hope is that by Christmas she can be back to my breast exclusively. While we were in the hospital, the doctors and lactation consultants said that me still nursing my older daughter is probably what kept my milk from drying up completely. Thank you for sharing your story!!! Praying for your sweet boy <3
Here is Tate's page and there is a brief history in the "about" section: https://www.facebook.com/PrayersForTatum?fref=ts
This could almost be the exact story of my first baby
The first 6 weeks were CONSTANT nursing once I brought my milk in myself (fenugreek and pumping) because she couldn’t stimulate my supply enough. She barely gained the required 4 oz every week and took a week to pass her meconium once we supplimented with formula. By 4 weeks we finally hit and passed birthweight, a mere 5 lbs 15 oz. At our 6 week weight check she had finally reached 6 lbs 8 oz and I thought we were doing well nursing. I had no pain, baby slept well, she was a content serious little baby. We had a weight check at 8 weeks and she had lost weight, plus was finally showing signs of dehydration. I immediately switched to EPing and she gained an entire lb in a week! Obviously she had no metabolic issue (one thought we were looking into) and my milk was rich/plentiful. I had thought from the beginning that she was tongue tied, but her pedi had said no even though she showed all the signs besides an obvious tie. She was in a program for preemies that evaluated her several times since she had “feeding difficulties” like choking, etc. I asked about ties again and pointed out her upper labial frenum looked very tight and was told it was not an issue. I researched and researched, then told my pedi I wanted her lip clipped and demanded he do it. She could immediately take a bottle without having zero suction and when she nursed it HURT because she had enough suction to show all the other signs of tongue tie. It took 5 months full of ENT, speech pathologist, dentist, and clinic visits to find an oral surgeon that said she was so severely tongue tied (posterior) that she may never be able to nurse even after a clipping. Unfortunately, the minor clipping he did was not enough and she could never gain properly on the breast alone even with domperidone, so she was put on donor milk because my supply was unable to return. She comfort nursed til 20 months when my next baby was born though! I also have a posterior tongue tie and it runs in my husband’s family though he is not tied. My newborn was tied less severely and was able to nurse effectively from the start. We had her clipped for my comfort and it seems to have worked, though she still has a lip tie. My hope is to find a way to get to Dr Kotlow and have them both properly revised!
I’m sorry that you had to learn about tongue tie in such a frustrating way! But so glad you had your second baby’s tongue revised early on… hopefully things will be smoother this time. Thank you for sharing your story. I hope you get to visit Dr.K!
[...] saga of Joey, son of Joyful Abode, who had issues with posterior tongue-tie and was growing very slowly because [...]
So sorry to hear about your wee one, it seems that you are doing all that you can to get back on track. We were the same, my sons tongue tie was spotted after only 2 weeks, but still had problems, and we had a lot of problems getting him to latch correctly after just the 2 weeks. All was right after 8 weeks but still to this day (6 months) I still have low supply in one breast (25% compared to the other) and if I feed sitting rather than lying on that side, most of the milk falls out of his mouth because of his poor latch. Its a long road, keep up the great work, and you will get there in the end!!! Youre doing a great job!
This has been on my mind since you posted. My son is 3 days older than yours (a homebirth, tandem nursing his older brother also). I found myself nodding in agreement with almost everything you’ve said about Joey. The only real difference is that my son has been gaining weight.
Yesterday, I was able to confirm with a lactation consultant that my son, indeed, has a partial tongue tie. She basically said as long as he’s growing and gaining weight, I shouldn’t worry. That he might have a speech impediment down the road.
I don’t know what this is going to mean for us long term, but I thank you for writing this post so people like me can be more aware.
I’m glad that his tongue tie hasn’t affected his nursing or weight gain, and also that you know now so that if you DO run into a TT-related issue in the future, you’ll know why and what your options are.
What youre experiencing is no easy task and is not for the weak hearted. You know yourself, this WILL work out because its important to you. For a dedicated mama, no challenge is too big. You have so much support IRL and in the online community. Your children are so lucky. Thinking of you mama.
Leasa
@projparenthood
i feel your pain!
i tried breastfeeding juniper right off the bat. mastitis, plugged ducts, milk blisters all in the first 2 weeks. i couldn’t do it, i chickened out. i pumped exclusively until she was 2.5 mos, when out of the blue, i decided, “i’m gonna breastfeed this baby”. she took the boob like a pro! it took a good 45 minutes of her screaming and pushing me away (heartbreaking to be rejected), but after that, she loves it. and so do i. i don’t need to tell you how amazing it is to cuddle, to be touched, to have her play with my necklace and face while she is being nourished.. but pumping, ugh boy.. it’s really hard. be prepared to deal with a gross oversupply. i was pumping about 50 oz per day. i was getting up in the middle of the night engorged. i pumped every 2-3 hours. dragging the pump to parties, to her baptism, getting a car adaptor for it and pumping on the turnpike while my husband drives.. it was a challenge, but damnit, juniper wasn’t going to get formula!
you can do it, pump or breast, you are doing a great job for your little buddy. have faith and don’t give up on him, either. he loves breastfeeding, and if you are persistent enough, i’m willing to bet he’ll be back at it after his surgery! like i said, juniper fought me screaming for 45 minutes before she would let me put my breast in her mouth to eat, spraying her with milk, tears all over the place, neighbors wondering what i was doing to her… but we did it!
Wow, what a courageous Mum your children have. I am in awe of your amazing strength in dealing with this situation. How easy it would be to let what’s past distract you from moving forward, but not this Mumma bear! Thank you for being so generous, and brave by sharing this journey with others. Thank you so much.
I’ve been sitting on commenting for a few days since I know how hard this must be on you. Here’s hoping you get the referral to get this frenulum clipped soon! Its amazing what a big difference your tandem nursing has played on Joey’s successes.
From the photos that looks like a Lansinoh Affinity pump? That’s what I used when pumping, and it works well on batteries. If you ever need a break from an outlet, you could carry it in a belly bag (fanny pack? Whatever they’re called) and use the batteries. I had quite a few pumping sessions where I had to hang my purse with pump inside on the back of a bathroom stall door.
I just discovered that I seem to have a posterior tongue tie, which could explain the five years of speech therapy and slight speech impediment I still have. My son always had a rotten latch, but I still managed to nurse him until just after his 3rd birthday (through pregnancy and 11 months of tandeming). It would have been much more enjoyable if I had discovered his tongue tie before tonight. I specifically remember commenting on his forked tongue when he was just a few weeks old, I just didn’t know what it meant. I bet my daughter has one too. Her latch is even worse and she practically gnaws on me, and it has gotten worse since I weaned her brother a couple weeks ago. Thank you for sharing. She will be a year old in a couple weeks so I would be ok with it if she weaned, but hopefully, if she does have a tongue tie, we can get that fixed and carry on. Thanks again.
You are the only other person I have “met” with a son who had the same diagnosis. “Content to starve”. I pumped for him for 2.5 years and bottle fed him because he could never latch on correctly. He just “does not get hungry”. He is now 6.5 years old and I still have to force him to eat. I am so happy that your son gained so much weight and seems to “enjoy eating.” My daughter latched on right away after I gave birth and she turns 3 in 2 weeks and is still nursing. I completely understand pumping every 3 hours 24/7. Friends just did not understand why I couldn’t just pick up and go to the zoo for the day, etc. I was attached to the pump. (((hugs))) I knew I was doing it for my son and no matter how sleep deprived I was (my eyes are still down to my knees) I couldn’t see feeding him any other way.
I didn’t even think of the “content to starve” issue lasting beyond the first year or so… that must be so strange to have to remind an older child to eat all the time. My daughter would NOT be able to let me “forget.” She loves to eat and asks for food all day long.
I’m inspired by your story! So many mothers give up with breastfeeding because of an “unexplained” lack of weight gain. With your experience having a long breastfeeding relationship with A, it has not only protected your supply but no doubt giving you encouragement as your EPing. A few months ago my 2-year old had a 5 day nursing strike due to strep throat and I pumped to maintain my supply. Even with a mature milk supply, I was pumping hardly any milk after only a few days since my daughter was not at the breast. Moms in our breastfeeding support group that deal with PTT go to a doctor about 3-hours from Indy in OH. They pay out of pocket sometimes for an affordable price, but PTT is different from TT as as you know harder to detect. I’m excited that you’re encouraged for moving forward and that Joey has gained well from the expressed milk from the bottle. Have faith that he will be back at the breast soon relearning a better latch and drawing more milk to thrive! You’re doing amazing!!!
I had a horrible time with breastfeeding my son when he was born. I went to multiple LC and never had any luck. I bet he has a posterior tongue tie – I just checked and I think I do. I was devastated and felt like a horrible mom but I EP’d for 9 months for him. I know you were looking for tips on twitter about getting more letdowns when pumping and wanted to share this website from Stanford NICU about how to increase you milk supply pumping. It talks a lot about hands on pumping and it made a huge difference for me
http://newborns.stanford.edu/Breastfeeding/MaxProduction.html
I also used fenugreek which helped, ate LOTS of oatmeal and powerpumped. All things I think you are doing. Good luck!!
Thank you SOOOOO much for writing this… I’ve been trying to breastfeed my 1 month old, and we’ve had nothing but problems since the start. While I was reading this, I was checking off little boxes in my head, going, “Philip does that, Philip is like that”, and I stuck my finger under his tongue, and lo and behold, there’s the tongue tie! I’m taking him to the doctor tomorrow to get him checked. Thank you so much for cluing us in!!!
What ended up happening with your Phillip? I hope everything is getting better for you too now.
This post was so touching and I’m so sorry for all that you have gone through to get here.
I’m sure (considering how thoughtful you are about everything) that you have already considered this, but stay on top of the insurance company. Don’t just wait for their call. Call them every day. And have you talked to the office where you want to have the procedure done? Do they know so they can get you in as soon as you are approved? Have you found out how much it would be to pay cash or have your insurance reimburse you? You might be able to get it done for much cheaper as a cash payer, then what they bill insurance. I hate the insurance game. If this seems like adding more to your plate, you can ignore it! You are already doing so much.
Joey is a lucky boy to have such a tenacious mama, I can’t believe how much work it is to pump so much! It makes me sad too that the tongue tie wasn’t caught earlier…it used to be routine procedure to check the tongue because tongue tied babies HAD to nurse or they wouldn’t survive. Now it’s like it doesn’t even matter, and moms have to notice that something is wrong (bleeding nipples, baby is getting enough, etc.) before it’s even addressed
I’m so happy for you that someone cared enough to say something, and that you were able to figure it all out so quickly. And I hope that the procedure gets done ASAP so that you two can reestablish your nursing relationship. Giant hugs to you, here’s to rising above the challenge!
I SO wanted to comment last night when I first read this, but this post? Is so heart wrenching for me. I exclusively pumped for my 3rd child until she was just over 6 months old and I “just couldn’t do it any longer”, but I produced SO much milk and just happened to be a fortunate pumper, I had enough milk stashed to get her through almost another month. I started pumping due to some medical problems that caused me to be in ICU for a week from the time she was 2 days old. We were separated (she stayed in the nursery, with nurses only able to bring her to me every few hours). Many months later and after I’d already weaned, we learned that the main reason she couldn’t learn to latch after that initial period was because of tongue tie. However, because I didn’t have a support system of breastfeeding advocates (active duty hubby who was away a lot, I didn’t have any friends, didn’t know what I know now, etc.), we didn’t know until she was 18 months old that she was tongue tied. And since we were long past the nursing/feeding issues, the dr. didn’t think it was worth treating at that point. However, this summer at 3½, she had her tongue tie released due to speech issues and it physically bothering her (her frenulum would protrude through her bottom teeth when she tried to extend her tongue)… It’s been a long road for me to move past my guilt of not being able to get nursing right for any of my 3 children. It’s now incredibly unwise for me to get pregnant again (due to said medical issues), but oh how I would love the opportunity to do it again with the knowledge I have now (and because kids are treasures!).
I’m so sorry you’re having to go through this. I think you are doing an amazing job and doing exactly what’s right for Joey (and you) in this season. And you’re totally right, it will get better. I know how difficult EP’ing is and highly commend you for your commitment! I’m also happy to hear Joey had already gained so much weight!
Thank you for sharing this, I hope it helps more moms realize that they aren’t failures and that in some cases, there is actually a fixable reason for their struggles. Maybe more moms will seek counsel instead of having regrets as I do.
You are a great mom and putting in a lot of work by tandem nursing and all that pumping! I commented on LJ but, I know you don’t have time to get over there. Take care of yourself as well as your babes.
You are doing a wonderful thing by continuing to pump your milk for baby Joey. I hope he gets clipped very soon, and takes right back to the breast!!!
What a struggle, but I’m so glad tat your friend alerted you to the problem and that you were able to find a cause quickly and find a way to get the milk to stay in.
Great work! So glad you are figuring things out. I EP’d for a year for both of my kids, so I know how much work it is. Good luck!
EP’ing is SO hard. . . time wise and emotionally. You go girl! I had a hard period around 5 months where my guy went on nursing strikes and wouldn’t take the breast and I was pumping a lot. I cried so much but we stuck with it and I’m proud to say he nursed till 15 months old when he weaned himself.
Do your best, but don’t drive yourself crazy over keeping him on breast milk. It is the best, but formula isn’t poison. It’s not worth going mad over and having an emotional break down if you can’t keep up.
Hugs!
You are amazing. And you are doing so good!
I pumped fulltime for a year for both of my babies. By choice. And I would not have been able to give them milk until their first birthdays without donor milk. What a blessing that was for us.
I’m so glad you discovered the tongue tie and that you are getting it clipped. It will work wonders for your breastfeeding relationship! And I’m so glad he’s doing so well with the bottle, sometimes it is a struggle for babies to go back and forth. I’m praying that he becomes a champion nurser once the tie is clipped.
Emily, I experienced a sort-of similar situation with a content to starve baby and not realizing there was a problem early on. You are absolutely correct in not looking back. You did the best you knew then, and now that you know more you’re doing the best you know now. I wish you the best of luck in getting Joey back to being completely breastfed. And remember, no matter how things turn out, you are an AWESOME mom.
I’d like to offer a little advice to any moms who give their babies bottles while they pump. When my daughter was going through a particularly grabby stage I discovered that wearing a nursing cover while pumping greatly reduced the amount of yanking she did on the pump tubing and flanges.
Emily,
I just want to come over with some pom poms and do a cheer on your front lawn for your commitment, your ingenuity, and your verve. Pom poms…and some chocolate.
(and I have a PTT too! Discovered it recently in one of those moments of A-Ha and immediately called to ask my mother about my own breastfeeding relationship. Sure enough. Classic.)
Poor Joey! (And you too!) I’m so glad you figured things out!
You’re an awesome mom! Breastfeeding is not easy. When you throw in any kind of difficultly, it just makes it worse. I morned the loss of not being able to breastfeed my first daughter. I feel your pain! Hopefully he’ll get back to breastfeeding soon!
I’ve been thinking about you and Joey all morning (ever since I read the post from Facebook). Thank you for your frank honesty and for sharing your experience for other mothers!!
Joey has an awesome mother.
I am so proud of you Emily, you are so inspiring! Is it ok that I cried a little bit when you said Joni has been giving J milk? So sweet!!
This makes me so mad! Not at you, but at the medical profession. I had tongue tie as a baby. My mother struggled for 5 months to try and nurse and not only was I not getting enough milk, but my latch was tearing her up. They didn’t discover I had tongue tie until much much later when my mom realized that I couldn’t lick a popsicle. My tongue is still pretty short since they were conservative with the cut.
I was soooo worried that my baby would have it. When he was born it was the first thing I looked for when he opened his mouth wide. He didn’t have it. It tends to run on the father’s side (which I learned in a hospital lactation class with two other mom’s who had tongue tie).
It is such a simple procedure and so easy to diagnose, I don’t know why they don’t just check immediately. I’m so sorry for this. Poor Joey and poor mama.
As for worrying about introducing a bottle, my son had no problem. I had to go back to work so we introduced a bottle at 6 weeks to make sure he would take it. He had no problem taking it, in part I think because I had to use nipple shields in the beginning and we were told to give him a pacifier to aid his digestion because of spit up. I think because he had so many things in his mouth (we actually had to do SNS on day 1 and 2, too) he never had a preference.
I fully support your hard, hard work but as someone who had to manage her breasts for the first year of her son’s life (I’m an HH with SEVERE overproduction issues and recurrent mastitis and plugged ducts) I will also support your mental health. Be sure you take care of yourself with sleep and sanity even it it means you have to introduce something beside breastmilk.
Lots of hugs.
Thank you for this post. Not being able to nurse my Nicu son was the most heartbreaking thing that has ever happened to me. It was such a loss. I started pumping for him right away. Every 2 hours those first few months. It was so hard but I kept at it until he was 17 months old. Exclusively pumping is so hard and heartbreaking but if anyone can get him back to the breast I know you can. Being a mom is hard and we all just do the best we can. I was able to have a good enough supply to actually donate. I drank mothers milk tea all day and always had oatmeal for breakfast. I truly am so grateful that I was able to give him milk even if it wasn’t the way I had envisioned it.
I just started reading your blog and am so impressed with your wonderful mothering skills! I BF my three daughters back in the day and they have BF my four grandchildren. It is also fantastic that you searched and stuck with it until you figured out what the issue is. Your children are incredibly lucky that you are their mom. What would I tell my girls? It will be okay, honey. Just relax and follow your instincts. Okay, now I’m tearing up…
So proud and in awe. I really look up to you. You never ‘quit.’ You are an amazing mother.
Emily, I am so proud of you! You are an amazing mother. A and Joey are lucky to have you.
Thank you for talking about your experience here – I know that it had to be very difficult to put all of that out here for everyone to see. I would guess that a lot of people love your breastfeeding pictures and at the same time think, she makes it look so easy. So thank you for telling the other side of the story as well – you probably helped a few mothers with your honesty.
My twins were a full pound apart at birth and the smaller one dropped almost an entire pound in the days before we left the hospital. I tandem nursed them as much as possible which is difficult with two small babies with floppy heads, and babies on different schedules (impossible to sync in the first few weeks).
While the bigger twin continued to grow and get chubby little rolls, W didn’t – his legs were so skinny and by one month he still wasn’t back to his birth weight. I started supplementing with him and he started gaining weight.
Pumping for one and nursing one wasn’t an option for me with a 3-yr old and knowing I had to go back to work full time so I had one nusing twin and one formula twin and they both thrived and continue to be incredibly healthy, happy boys (3-yrs old now). I took a lot of heat from people over the decision (and talking about formula won’t make me popular here)…but I made the choice that worked best for all of us in that situation.
Good luck with your journey, I hope that the procedure can be done soon and you can get back to those moments that you treasure. Don’t let anyone make you feel bad about your path – you are working hard and doing the best for your baby!
Wow, Emily, I can’t imagine how hard this discovery has been on you, emotionally and otherwise. And pumping that much?! Yeah, you are most certainly NOT lazy. I am amazed at your dedication to keep giving Joey the best food he can get!!! You’re one strong woman!
You’re awesome! I had trouble breast feeding my twins because I had inverted nipples. I had to pump the first two months and then never had enough supply. I know the effort of pumping and bfing and pumping more. I wish I had know about giving them donated breast milk because I would have done anything not to have to supplement with formula, I basically did! Yay for big sister being such a huge help. Hang in there you are doing great.
First, huge huge hugs to you. Breastfeedining is so rewarding and so challenging. Not giving up and giving in to the formula path takes determination, forgiveness and patience. You are amazing and truly an inspiration.
Second, when you mentioned that book last week I purchased it immediately as randomly my supply last week dropped in half despite my diligence at the pump. I thought the urban legend of drying up was turning into my reality. That book is helping me tremendously!
Finally, holy hell! I swept the bottom of my tounge while reading this and I have the same thing. I was failure to thrive and my mom was forced to put me on formula.
Wrigley has had issues with weight gain since born. I am waiting for him to wake up and can’t wait to check this out!
Thank you for your honesty and for sharing!
Content to starve? Heartbreaking. You are such a strong mama and Anneliese is such a helpful big sister — congratulations on your tenacity and ability to grow your boy!
It was so brave of you to share what’s going on with your family and your raw feelings. Even though I only pump for work, it’s definitely a hard thing for me because I come up short (esp. in the afternoons) and have to pump at home at night to make sure the bottles are full. Honestly, breastfeeding was very intuitive for me and my little one, but pumping is a roller coaster. Kudos to you for doing whatever you can to help grow Joey and still give him breastmilk. From all your posts, I can tell you’re a great mom. I’m praying that after Joey’s procedure he’ll be able to nurse at the breast again. Thank you for sharing!
Amazing story!!! Tandemfeeding rocks!! <3<3<3
/Instagram-mama hellahell7/Lakritspipan
you have me in tears for what you must have gone through and what you are going through. praying for you both. i hope you get in for a procedure very soon and can resume with the normal nursing and all the extra snuggles you can get. i know what you must be feeling as a mother since i am also a mom of two that age and it makes me proud that you are doing so much for their well being.
Wow, well done for working it out!!!! It’s so good that Joey can still get what is best for him. I fed Frankie for 7 weeks and desperately wanted to continue. He had a dreadful burn on his bottom that I could not get rid of. I had the same problem with my 2 girls. I went to the dr and my local breast feeding association nurse but no one could/would help me. They said it was nonsense, but I went to comping with formula and it got better. Then I upped the breast feeding again and it went back to severe burn that was bleeding. As soon as I put him on formula it cleared. He is nearly 3 1/2 months now and I am going to see a lactation consultant tomorrow to see about relactating. I desperately want to breast feed and it breaks my heart when ever I see breastfeeding photos. I’m am hoping that perhaps Frankie and I can try again and maybe, just maybe we can successfully breast feed again. Good luck with everything!! You are a wonderful, strong and loving Mother that knows what is best for her baby! You have really inspired me when it comes to breastfeeding, so thank you xoxo (Sorry fit the vent, I don’t have a lot if people to talk to about it)
If you do try to get back to nursing (I don’t know how old your baby is) try an elimination diet. He might be sensitive to something you are eating that’s coming through in your milk.
Bless your heart. What a hero doing all that to get mama milk into your sweet little boy.
I went through some of this with my son too. He had different issues at first — he was eating fine for the first three months and then started refusing the breast sometimes. I would just not feed him because I figured he didn’t want it … until I saw his weight had slipped (by my guess, weighing myself with him and without him) from 15 pounds down to 12. I had thought he was just leaning out because he was growing longer! I fought and fought with him, trying to find ways to get him to want to nurse instead of turning his head away screaming. He changed from a happy baby to an always-fussy baby. Eventually I got through it, right around when he started solids, and I thought I’d never know what it was that did it.
But when he turned two, I was being silly with him and sticking out my tongue. He tried to stick his out — and couldn’t. Such a huge, visible tongue tie. Can’t believe I never saw it before! What saved us is that I have massive oversupply. Those first three months, I was a fountain, and when my milk supply regulated, he was so frustrated that he couldn’t get as much milk out anymore. He also had silent reflux, so if he did manage to eat, it hurt him. And I think he also had food sensitivities! Perfect storm of problems, so that when I think back, I am amazed we nursed till 19 months!
With my second son, we are seeing some of the same issues — frustration with oversupply, reluctant to nurse sometimes, but also vast quantities of spitup. So I’m seeing that the oversupply issue is the same, but he does not appear to have any tongue tie. As a result, despite some frustration, he is gaining beautifully. I compare the pictures of my first son at this age to those of my second son, and WOW. They look like twins except for how skinny my first looks in comparison. He didn’t look skinny to me then, but now those pictures look so thin.
And what do you know, even at two he hardly ever asks to eat. I have to chase him down with a sandwich. He’s just too busy doing other things I guess.
Emily, you just leave that guilt behind! You are a good mother for doing all of this and I’m glad that the problem was something relatively simple in the grand scheme of things. I hope you can get him in quickly.
I teared up at the part where you said Anneliese helped him. Such a good big sister and she’s just doing what comes naturally.
This story made me cry because it’s the same thing I went through with Gabriel. But you are much more prepared and educated than I was, and I let doctors bully me against my mother’s instinct. I am happy you caught it pretty early. Gabe was 2 1/2 (and couldn’t talk) before I could finally convince his doctor’s to do a frenulectomy. He had a very severe tongue-tie.
You are going an amazing job and you are such a great Mama! I really look up to you!
Wow! Thank you for sharing all of that. You are a wonderfully attentive mom to be able to put all of that together. And then to move forward with a plan of action. Joey and Anneliese are so blessed! I teared up reading about the way Anneliese has protected your milk supply this whole time. That’s really beautiful.
Oh honey, I am so sorry that you guys are going through all of this. It only brings back all of the difficulties Chloe and I had with breastfeeding. You are such an inspiration and I only wish I had had as much determination with breastfeeding Chloe as you do for Joey! I still cry over our choice to finally give into the hardships we had with breastfeeding, I miss it so much and it’s been over a year now.
You are 100% right when you say that everything will be alright, though. If anyone can get through this it is you. I will be sending you all my thoughts and prayers that you get past this as quickly and easily as possible.
You truly inspire me to do everything I possibly can to breastfeed my future children for much, much longer than I was able to with Chloe. And saying that kills me only because I feel that I failed her in that aspect of nurturing her and that she missed out on something that her future sibling(s) will not.
My daughter was born at 32 weeks and all my breast feeding intentions were thrown in the air. Initially she was far too underdeveloped to nurse, and weight gain continues to be a concern for us even now at 9 months. I want to give you a major kudos for exclusive pumping, it is HARD and takes everything you have got. I EP’d for 4 months and never was able to have a nursing relationship with her, but am grateful I was able to provide the good stuff for that long;) you go mama!
I know personally how exhausting that is and I didn’t have a toddler while I did. Good work and good catch. You can do it. Hope you get in to the doctor soon! Keep your chin up.
I admire you for your honesty, dedication and determination. Faced with a tough situation, you’ve done what any mom would do, anything possible for your son. You are doing everything in your power to give him what’s best. If you ever need anything I’m only a text away. Hugs.
You are doing an amazing job of managing a rough situation, Emily. I am sending hugs and encouragement. Also saddened that you had to do all that research on your own. It is a constant source of frustration that more folks in the medical field are not capable of assessing for posterior tongue ties.
Also a vote of support for what you’re doing in putting him to breast after he’s mostly satiated via bottle so he gets to comfort nurse. The “finish at the breast” technique is especially good for maintaining positive associations with breastfeeding/breasts in general and is a good strategy for helping him transition back after the TT revision.
xo
I am so sad. With my first child we had issues with failure to thrive around 4 months. It was a very difficult and emotional time for me. He had failure to thrive and it was my limited supply. When we consulted at the doctor they had me five him a bottle and he never went back. It broke my heart. He was a very happy baby and now a happy almost 5 tear old. Good luck during this challenging time and know that he loves you no matter how he gets his milk. I had to remind myself of that and that I needed to do what was best for him even though it was difficult for me.